Eyewitness 1 Testimony

Interview with Eyewitness 1 conducted by NIDS July 18, 2001
Re: Carteret, New Jersey Sighting of Orange Lights July 15, 2001

NIDS: ...and this is EW 1, and this is NIDS talking to EW 1, and it's July 18th at 8:58 a.m. in Pacific time. EW 1, what do you...what do you do for a living? What's your occupation?

EW 1: I'm a salesman.

NIDS: Salesman? In what kind of business?

EW 1: I sell office equipment-copiers, faxes...

NIDS: Oh...

EW 1: ...multifunctional devices, color printers, color copiers, et cetera.

NIDS: Okay. And what's your current age?

EW 1: 40.

NIDS: Okay. And...and how...you spell your last name ******?

EW 1: No, no, no. You're close. ******.

NIDS: ******.

EW 1: Yeah.

NIDS: What's your address?

EW 1: ******.

NIDS: ******?

EW 1: Yep.

NIDS: And that's in where?

EW 1: ****** New Jersey.

NIDS: Oh, okay. ...

EW 1: New Jersey.

NIDS: How far away is that from Carteret?

EW 1: Uh, probably about, I'd say...probably I'd say about maybe 2 miles, 2-3 miles?

NIDS: Oh, these must be really close together little communities then.

EW 1: Yeah, yeah. Everything is on top of-that's how Jersey is, though. Carteret is about as big as a freakin' calculator.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: I mean it's small, you know? Real small. It ain't big at all.

NIDS: Okay. Alright, now the location of the sighting took place where? What was...what was happening at the time?

EW 1: Well, I was on the turnpike headed south, going through Carteret...

NIDS: Okay, gotcha.

EW 1: ...to get to...to get to my destination, which was home, and I pulled over on the shoulder of the road. Only reason why I pulled over on the shoulder of the road though, was because there was a lot of other cars pulled over. Normally I wouldn't...I wouldn't pull over for safety reasons. I mean I love life too much to have somebody come up and whack me.

NIDS: Okay...

EW 1: Well, when you got so many cars out there, it slows the flow of traffic so people are a little more cautious, you know?

NIDS: How many cars do you think were out there?

EW 1: I'd say about 75.

NIDS: 75 cars? And they were all pulled over?

EW 1: Yeah.

NIDS: OK.

EW 1: A bunch.

NIDS: What was the approximate time that this occurred?

EW 1: 12:38 a.m. I looked at the clock.

NIDS: 12:39 a.m. Yeah, that's pretty close. Date of sighting? Was...was that on July the 15th?

EW 1: Yep, the 15th.

NIDS: Okay, 7/15. And, okay, when...now what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask you a series of questions, and then we'll go back there and have you tell the story about how it happened, and then I'll probably go back and look at my questions and see if there's anything more I need to ask you or not. Okay, how's that?

EW 1: Okay.

NIDS: So, how long did the sighting last from the first time you saw it until the last time you saw it?

EW 1: Okay, I'd say...if I...if I actually stopped my car at 12:38, I would say at least would...about maybe a minute and a half before that I had first spotted them, so let's say...let's go with...let's say 12:36, and by the time this whole...it lasted maybe like inside of 10 minutes. It didn't last long.

NIDS: Okay. What was the weather like?

EW 1: Oh, the weather-it was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful east coast summer night. Nice and clear skies.

NIDS: Okay. And wind? Any wind?

EW 1: No. No wind.

NIDS: That's...you know...okay.

EW 1: And if there was a breeze, I mean, it was nothing that was noticeable. Anything inside of 4 miles an hour, you know what I mean?

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: Nothing...nothing...I mean...

NIDS: Did you report this to any other agency?

EW 1: I call-well, when I got back to my house, I called CBS news in New York and I called NBC, but I couldn't get in touch with anybody over there because it was 1:00 in the morning at that time..

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: ...so I just called the Star Ledger, which is a newspaper in north New Jersey, so...north Jersey's our largest circulated newspaper and credible, so I called them and got in touch with the newsroom and they called me back the next day.

NIDS: Any...did you ever have any previous UFO experiences?

EW 1: Well, I did, but, I mean, you know, I was only like 13 and I thought I saw something that looked questionable and...and to this day, I mean I...I mean, it's not that I don't talk about it, but what I saw the other night is on a whole other level. Forget about whatever happened to me in the past. What I saw the other night totally blew me away, so...

NIDS: Right. How many UFO's did you see?

EW 1: That night, you're saying?

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: About...

NIDS: Yeah. Yeah, we're focusing...we're...we're going to focus on what happened this last weekend, now.

EW 1: Okay, so, I would say it was 20 to 25 lights in the air.

NIDS: And how were these lights shaped?

EW 1: Okay, well see, here's the thing-this...this...this...when I'm coming down the highway, which we call the New Jersey turnpike out here, as I'm coming down the highway, you see these lights. And now the way you see 'em, they almost look like they are...you could say like they're...they're there, but you could say they looked like they...they're falling to the ground, but what I mean by falling to the ground-it's not that they were moving, it's just that they were in...in a formation where they were just like all over the place.

NIDS: Okay...

EW 1: But not really in a pattern. Now that all changes within, like, the next minute. They go into like a V-formation. They just start making a formation like a "V".

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Now...now I want to call it an "M" 'cause in the middle of...of the letter "M" is like a V-shape...

NIDS: Yeah, that's right.

EW 1: But on the ends they started to tail off and...but it would've been the worst looking "M" we've ever seen in our life, but it wasn't...at that point it became not a perfect "V". At one...at one point it was a nice-looking "V", but not a...a sharp "V". It was a "V" that was kinda like spread out on a...I guess that would be like a 180° angle...

NIDS: Gotcha.

EW 1: ...or something like that. You know what I mean?

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: Um...and then...okay [inaudible].

NIDS: Okay, I...I pretty much understand that, and that's the shape of the formation. How about the lights themselves that form...that formed this thing? Were they...were they like balls or were they shaped like eggs, or triangles or...

EW 1: Well, the thing is, I've even said to some people, I almost wish that this could happen to me again so I could stand there and look at 'em, and I'd probably tell you the same story because I was so much in amazement that looking at 'em, they were just like white...they were like amber, golden-colored lights and because it was dark, you really couldn't see the shape of 'em. I would [inaudible]...

NIDS: Oh, okay.

EW 1: ...circular motion. You can't really tell. It's like even if I had the opportunity to look at it again and try to study it, I still would probably come away with the same thing I'm telling you now.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Kind of hard to make 'em out that night, you know?

NIDS: Yeah, that's fine. Now you called this a white, amber, golden color?

EW 1: Yeah, I call like a golden uh...you can't call it bright white lights 'cause it wasn't that at all. They were like a...like a...a goldish, yellowish type of light, you know?

NIDS: Golden-yellowish?

EW 1: Yeah, I would say like that. Like golden-yellowish.

NIDS: Okay, I'll scratch off the white and amber part. Alright, now this formation-how big was the size of this formation compared to a 747?

EW 1: Okay, again...again that maybe a little tricky to answer because I started from afar, and as I approached them, they were still there. I...I mean maybe I could say this formation was the size of a 747, maybe I could say just a little bit smaller. It's...it's really tough to say.

NIDS: Okay, uh...

EW 1: That's a tough one for me.

NIDS: Okay, so...

EW 1: You know...

NIDS: Was it...was this as large an airplane or bigger...was it bigger than an airplane, or the same size, like an airliner or small? How's that? Would that help you?

EW 1: Well, okay, the reason why...that that kind of question is not gonna really work neither, 'cause of the height of these lights.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: See, some sat low, others towered above the other ones, and then there were some in the middle, so it was bigger from top to bottom than any airplane.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Now as far as like width or front to back length, that's a different story. You know what I mean?

NIDS: Mm-hmm. Yeah, well I understand.

EW 1: The overall height, I mean, some was sitting up high, some were low, some were in the middle, so it...it...and then...like even I had a friend say to me yesterday, "Well how many feet [sic] you think they were up in the air?" Well then I...I thought that was a very good question, because when a plane takes off, I mean, if the ceiling level is going to be 30,000 feet, this was nowhere near that. This...these things had to be, in my opinion when a plane first starts to climb, he's up at about maybe...once he's up like right over top of the runway, he's about maybe getting up to about 6,000 feet or so? I'd say these lights were, to me, looked like they were about maybe 6,000-in-between 6,000 and 8,000...it's in-between 6,000 and 10,000 feet in the air.

NIDS: Okay. All right...

EW 1: Maybe not so high. Maybe even 6,000, 'cause they were sitting kind of low, 'cause I mean they were right there in front of you.

NIDS: Okay, and you're...so...so you...you estimated they were about 6,000 feet?

EW 1: That's what I think I want to say.

NIDS: Okay. Well that's okay even if it's not accurate. I mean that's just your best guess. That's fine.

EW 1: Yeah but...if other people were to report this, they would tell you that these lights weren't like up in the air like real high, I mean they was like there. I mean they was sitting low on...you know [inaudible]?

NIDS: I gotcha. Yeah. Did you hear any sound?

EW 1: I'm sorry, say it again now?

NIDS: Did you hear any sound?

EW 1: No. No sound. Now there were people like yelling in amazement.

NIDS: Okay. How...how fast was this thing moving?

EW 1: No, very, very, very, very slow. But here's the thing though, NIDS, once you locked in on 'em, once we finally got up there and...and actually was able to pull over and start looking at 'em, one by one they just started disappearing and then...

NIDS: Gotcha.

EW 1: ...well, next thing you know, the skies were pitch black and silent.

NIDS: Okay. Which direction was it going in the sky...on the compass? Was...

EW 1: I was headed south, so...

NIDS: It was going toward the south?

EW 1: Yeah, I was going sou-I was traveling south when I pulled over on the highway, so I would say that as these things disappeared, I'm gonna say that they disappeared to the...I'd say northeast, because they were not going in the direction I was going. They were moving more toward the north, but then maybe out, going toward the east back towards Staten Island.

NIDS: Did you see 'em change direction? That's what it seems like. I mean, that's okay. I mean that's...

EW 1: Yeah. Now, again, that's a little bit tough for me because I started out in my car when I first saw 'em and I had...I rode up to a point where I parked, so seeing 'em, they stayed where they were until I got there. As soon as I got there, you know, they started moving, so I can't really say they changed direction other than that they...they were definitely moving now.

NIDS: Okay. Okay, so how did the UFO's disappear from view, eventually?

EW 1: They just...they just disappeared, just one by one. They just like faded out. "Shooo!"

NIDS: One by one they faded out?

EW 1: Yep.

NIDS: Okay. Okay, I'm just writing notes down on my report form here.

EW 1: Mm-hmm.

NIDS: Okay, now the movement-how would you describe the movement? Was it jerky? Was it rapid or, well, as you said, it was very slow, or was it very steady?

EW 1: Nothing jerky. This...this thing was like a symphony. It was nice and smooth. It was...

NIDS: Smooth? Okay.

EW 1: Yeah, there was nothing jerky, nothing fast about 'em. It was very...it was a very mellow type of thing, man, you know?

NIDS: Okay. How about any...did you get...did you get a camcorder video of it?

EW 1: No, but somebody out here on the east coast did, 'cause I saw it on the news.

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: Yeah.

NIDS: Did anything happen to you physically or mentally when you saw the...the encounter? Was anything...feel like emanating from the...from the thing that bothered you?

EW 1: No.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Not at all. The only thing I felt at the time was probably a lot of...a lot of adrenaline flowing, a lot of excitement.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: I think most of my [inaudible] I'm really straight about it was the fact that it wasn't just me seeing this. Other people were experiencing this, and for me that was like a rush.

NIDS: Right.

EW 1: 'Cause I knew from the time I saw it that something wasn't right. Just to tell you a little bit about myself, I'm...I'm one of these guys that...I...I don't want to say it's weird, but like, I mean, I'm into where I'm...where I live at. I mean I know all kinds of airplanes. I used to be in the Navy, like I...in my office see, I got planes everywhere. I know formations of lights, and then when I used to work on a aircraft carrier out at sea, I knew, you know, the...the formations for different planes and lights on there and what it looks like. So as soon as I saw this that night, I knew something was different because at that part of the turnpike, there's no towers or nothing where these could be, you know, lights up in the air.

NIDS: Right.

EW 1: And if they were lights up in the air, they would have to have red, you know, beacons on 'em for all the air traffic coming into Newark airport.

NIDS: Right. Now let me ask you 2 side questions, then. What did you do in the Navy on the aircraft carriers?

EW 1: Yeah, well, I started out working in arresting gear on the flight deck, so I used to work a position called Flight 3, and if you would ever do any Navy research, they'll tell you that the guy who works Flight 3 has to know light formations on planes because I have to call 'em into the engine room so we have the right setting. So if it were catching an F-4 Phantom, the weight has got to be set for that plane on the engines, so you have to know from looking at the lights...

NIDS: So you were called...oh yeah, yeah, that's right. So you were called Fly 3?

EW 1: I was called Fly 3. Fly 3 is...is your job title, but you have to call in different planes. I would have to call in EA6-D's, F-4's, A-7's, you know? E-2 Hawkeye's, so we could have the right weight setting, 'cause if we're...if we're catching which we called the Peter rabbit, which was an A-3, it's a...it's a heavy plane.

NIDS: Okay. That's actually very relevant. Now, in your professional...in your Navy experience with aircraft and lights...with aircraft lights in formation as they're coming in on the traffic pattern to landing on a carrier...

EW 1: Yep.

NIDS: ...how do these lights compare? How...do they compare to aircraft, or do they compare to flares being dropped by the Air Force or by the Army...

EW 1: Yes...

NIDS: ...or...or none of the above?

EW 1: Right, none of the above.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: That...that's the thing that, you know, this...this...you never even had a doubt from it, 'cause it...with a flare, I don't care what kind of flare it is, it's gonna leave some type of trail of smoke.

NIDS: Yeah, that's right.

EW 1: [Inaudible] something. Man, this...like I told you, this was an unbelievable experience. I...I...I mean, boy, do I wish I had a video of it, but, you know?

NIDS: Oh, okay. So you're...so you don't see the tell-tale marks of flares, so it's definitely anomalous, then? Okay. Um...when you saw this thing, you saw it moving steadily and I...I think there is the change in motion, although you're not sure because of the...because it's consistent other part...other people's stories on this.

EW 1: Yes. Mm-hmm.

NIDS: Did you...did you think it passed overhead you or was it in an angle from you?

EW 1: No, it never...never passed overhead.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Now...now...

NIDS: How...

EW 1: ...there are other people that could be different from me. Where I'm at on the highway-I'm looking...I'm on the highway looking...I'm traveling south but I'm looking east to look at the lights.

NIDS: Okay...

EW 1: They weren't to my north, they weren't to the west of me...

NIDS: Right.

EW 1: ...they weren't to the south of me, they were to the east...

NIDS: Okay...

EW 1: ...but as they departed the area, that's why I said, some of 'em were moving a little bit to the for-the forward position, which would make it north, but at the same time moving out east.

NIDS: So the angle of observation was...was constant or variable over the horizon? Like was it always 35° above the horizon, was it always 45° above the horizon or was it 75° above the horizon or...

EW 1: I...I'd say it was...I mean, what degrees would I put this at? I don't know what degrees to put it at, but they were consis-they stayed at the same degrees when they...even when they dissipated. I don't know which...what...what number to use if we're degrees now.

NIDS: Well...okay, well, did they change? Well, you know how you have the aircraft at altitude off the deck of a carrier?

EW 1: Right.

NIDS: Well, say the deck is horizontal and that's 0°--then the line over your head pointing straight up in the sky is 90°, right?

EW 1: Okay.

NIDS: So...so between 0° and 90° would be the altitude in degrees above the deck.

EW 1: Okay, let's do it like this. Let's look at a clock and go with 6:00, 12:00...

NIDS: Okay, that's fine.

EW 1: Okay? I put these lights at the 10:00 position.

NIDS: Now...oh, at the 10:00 position on a clock?

EW 1: Yeah, right.

NIDS: I gotcha there. Let me...

EW 1: They stayed there. They...they uh...they were like...that's a tough one again, but you understand...

NIDS: I gotcha. I think they were about 30° . I'll say about 30°.

EW 1: That's what I...okay, about 30°, then.

NIDS: Yeah, but...

EW 1: Like they were consistent. They stayed right there. These...there wasn't a lot going on with these lights. I mean...

NIDS: Right. Right. Okay, um ...let me see...I'm trying to write down some information here on my notes. Alright. Well, I'm at the point now where I want you to tell me in your own words, beginning with the...the date, time and place and what you were doing and how it all began and what you saw

EW 1: Okay.

NIDS: In your own words, and take your time. There's no rush.

EW 1: Yeah. You ready?

NIDS: Okay, go ahead.

NIDS: Well, me and my girlfriend left out of New York City. What time we left, [sic] not really sure. It doesn't take a long time to get back to Jersey, but I'd say probably around quarter after 12:00 for arguments sake. Go through the Holland Tunnel and we get on the New Jersey turnpike to head south to come home. So around 12:35 we passed Exit 13 and what you...in New Jersey Exit 13 is the Goethals Bridge and Elizabeth.

Within the next mile I would see some lights. As I'm traveling south, these lights on the left-hand side of the highway, which means on the northern side for traffic coming back up. Um, my girlfriend, at the time, was talking to me. We were in a conversation. I forget what she was even talking about and I cut her off immediately and I said to her, "What in the hell are those lights over there? Look at that!", because, when I first saw, they were something that I knew was out of the ordinary, because I live in New Jersey.

I'm a resident of New Jersey. I travel this particular highway to go home more often than others, so I knew that...and because I'm the type of person that is very aware of his surroundings, whether it be lights on planes or towers or this or that-and I am a salesman. I'm always on the road, so, I mean, that's even my sales territory. I knew this was out of the ordinary.

So as I'm going down the turnpike, I say to her, "What the heck is this?" and she's like, "I don't know." We keep driving and I'm...my question to her was, "Babe, I wonder if anybody else is looking at this the way we are? Is it just us, or are other people seeing this or even paying it any attention?"

For about maybe, I don't know, 20 seconds later she says to me, "That sure is a lot of traffic down there." Now there wasn't a lot of cars on the highway for traffic. However, the traffic was because people were pulling over. Now when everybody starts to pull over other people slow up. There's rubbernecking delays, people are pulling over. So we pull over as we're approaching these lights and still not knowing what it is.

As I got out of my vehicle, I immediately ran to a...a sports utility vehicle that was already pulled over. There was a Caucasian woman and 2 guys-2 Caucasian guys. They were...one of the...the girl was up on the guard rail just hollering. She was going crazy. And I run over there to them and I...because I wanted to...I did it like this, I ran over and said to them, "What are y'all looking at?", and she's like, "Those lights!" So at that point I felt good because I was like, "Okay, I'm not the only one that's seeing these lights.", and wanted to get that confirmed, so...

They're going crazy, like, "Oh my God, what is it?" The girl was real dramatic. She's like, "Oh my God! I can't believe this! What is that?" I mean...any...any adult who's been around just for a couple of years knew that they were looking at something that was out of the ordinary. It...this is...and it's hard to describe. It was just...you were looking at something that you knew was not normal, period. And...

NIDS: And how many years were you in...you in the Navy?

EW 1: Yeah, I was in for 4 ½.

NIDS: 4 ½?

EW 1: Yeah.

NIDS: And as you said earlier, these definitely did not look like aircraft lights...?

EW 1: Nope.

NIDS: ...that you seen in formation when fighters were coming in, or even military or air...civilian planes in the...in your area over there in New Jersey near the airport?

EW 1: Right.

NIDS: And you also reiterate that you...that they do not look like flares, and you've seen flares before?

EW 1: Too many times.

NIDS: Okay, so these were definitely not flares in your professional opinion...

EW 1: No.

NIDS: ...nor were they military or civilian aircraft lights?

EW 1: Right.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: And remember, a flare is always gonna...as it burns out, it's gonna drop to the ground because gravity's gonna pull it down.

NIDS: Right.

EW 1: Gravity did not pull these things down.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: These...these things were out there, and they...I told you they would move up and then they would disappear one by one.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: So...

NIDS: And you didn't see them move down at all?

EW 1: No, never. Never.

NIDS: Okay. Alright...

EW 1: If they were already down, they were just down there, you know?

NIDS: Okay, let me...pick up back where I interrupted you.

EW 1: Okay.

NIDS: Pick up back where you left off.

EW 1: So...okay, you're...right, right, right. Okay, so, you know, we're all out there but looking at these lights. Well, in that aspect to...to...to kinda conclude that part of it, we all just went away in amazement, not knowing what we had just saw because it didn't last that long. This whole thing probably was a inside of a 10 minute experience. For some individuals it could've been longer. That's something that I can't answer. I can really only talk about my personal experience, which was about 10 minutes of euphoria. I mean it was crazy.

So then we leave from there and the whole time riding home I feel like I'm riding in my car, but I feel like I'm like...I feel like I'm in another world, because what I just saw was something that was amazing. I couldn't get it off of my mind, so soon as I get home-and I could've call from my cell phone to the news stations or the newspaper, but with cell phones being so unreliable, I would hate to take the chance of calling somebody at one of those reputable organizations and then the phone call getting dropped, and they'd be like, "Oh, who's that knucklehead?"

But what I did was I went home and I used my...you know, phone land line from the house and I called...the first person I called was CBS. The next was NBC. Couldn't get in touch with neither one of them. So after that I called the Star Ledger 'cause I figure that's the...the big newspaper in New Jersey and I'd probably be able to get somebody in the newsroom, which I end up getting. Left a message with them. They took my story-left a message with them and the next day they called me back and I went over the details with 'em and they ran the article and then that's when I heard from you guys.

NIDS: Well, that's great and I can't think of anything else. You've given me a lot of details. Now can you describe-one last question.

EW 1: Mm-hmm.

NIDS: Can...oh, um...see, I think we pretty much got physiological reactions and electromag-oh. Did you notice any lights going off? I mean, did the electricity in the vehicles on the highway-yours or any...any lights in the street or the homes go off?

EW 1: Yeah, now nothing.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: Nothing.

NIDS: And...and you didn't hear any sound. Did you...so, could you see the stars that night?

EW 1: You know what? I was waiting for you to ask me that and...I...you know I don't remember looking up in the air, but...that was a clear night and...and I believe that the stars were out. I...I'll put it like this, I can't answer that...

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: ...100% but the weather was beautiful that night.

NIDS: Okay.

EW 1: And we...I'm saying we had had a run up of, you know, almost 5 or 6 days of absolutely perfect, perfect weather.

NIDS: How do you describe the lights that made up that formation? Were they like as bright as helicopters, spotlights or stadium-football stadium lights or where they flash-the equivalent of a flashlight or did they glow or did they emit or what?

EW 1: Okay, I got the perfect answer for you. None of the above.

NIDS: None of the...

EW 1: However...however, if you're in an airplane at night and you look down on the ground when you're getting ready to land, I mean, you could be about I don't know, 15,000 feet up in the air. On a clear night then you'll see all the street lights in the parking lot and stuff?

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: How they have that golden glow to 'em?

NIDS: Yeah.

EW 1: From up in the air? That's what these looked like.

NIDS: Oh, okay.

EW 1: They had that...they had that...that...that kinda color to 'em.

NIDS: Okay. Well, you're right. That is a perfect answer.

EW 1: Yeah, you know.

NIDS: Well listen. I thank you for your time and I don't know that I'll need to contact you again, but if I should do I have...can I have your permission to contact you again if I need...

EW 1: Not...not a problem.

NIDS: Well thank you, and you take care and the best of luck to you.

EW 1: Yep.

EW 1: And we have a web site. I don't know how...if you're interested. I don't know if were going to put a report up on this but we probably should put up a report up on, but if we end up doing...

[End of interview]